A Case for the Reorganization of the Imperial Navy

Post by **Vortagh** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:32 am

People PLEASE realize one thing: Squadrons are for simulations. Simulations are DEAD. That's D-E-D. DED. There's NO new game on the horizon and most likely there won't be any for years. We can't keep hanging on to something, because it was awesome in the past, if we want to talk about activity. Yes, I know it sucks. Many people like their old squadrons. I like Gamma and Zeta, La Forge likes "his" Gamma (whatever he's talking about :P), Steel likes whatever has Gunboats, but that doesn't give us, who are now in command-and-decision making positions, the right to ignore everything, just because we are used to this and happen to like it.

However, I think we can have a little compromise here. We can keep the squadrons almost as they are, with a few minor changes. This includes the following:

Cut Squadrons down in size. Draz has suggested 6 in a squadron, but I think we should go further and go down to 3. That means they have a Squadron Leader and two Flight Leaders of imaginary flights. With 20 people, that would give us roughly 8 squadrons - enough for an ISD and two VSDs.
Also, sizing down, might actually help with activity. It is easier to amuse three people, than to get 6 or more people going and if a squadron is at 100% activity, it would generate more fun and less annoyance for the members.

At the same time, I still fully support Calders Fleet idea. And we could easily size bridge crews the same way - 3 people per ship. That means after staffing the aforementioned VSDs and ISD, we'd have two or three people left. Enough for a single small craft. We might even be able to give it a single squadron, so it could be a Dreadnought or Strike Cruiser.

Calder · Post by **Calder** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:34 am

I'm not advocating we abandon tying the ranks to positions. I'm simply suggesting that we open up the spread, which I think is what Drazhar has also indicated. At least for the time being, it is likely unnecessary to have first officers aboard any of the ships.

In the past on my own ships I had usually designated one of the squadron leaders as the senior-most squadron leader (even if they were all the same rank) and made him/her the unofficial "second officer". Therefore, regardless of whether we go to a handful of VSDs with some form of manned squadrons on them, or a larger fleet with one person per squadron, we can simply have the senior most sub-unit commander serve as the second-in-command for the larger unit (ship vs. systems force, or what have you).

LCL Fewrfreyut · Post by **LCL Fewrfreyut** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:40 am

hmm... I like this mixed idea. Downsizing, but at the same time expanding.
This , at least in my opinion, would probably easier to adjust down the road (if needed).

LC La Forge · Post by **LC La Forge** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:57 pm

For the sake of this discussion, I think we should pick a method and discuss that, to keep things clear. Perhaps Captain Calder and Governor Vortagh can discuss the various merits of the "1 officer per unit" versus the "3 officers per unit" system and figure out which one they feel is best and we can all focus our efforts there to start, instead of this thread turning into a mess.

Calder · Post by **Calder** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:21 pm

Commander,

While I appreciate your confidence, that discussion is one that needs to take place above my pay-grade as well. I am sure that the Admirals Fel will discuss it with the rest of the High Command and inform us of whatever decision they feel is most prudent.

Post by **Fel** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:11 am

Right now we're working on it. Let's look at the three person squadron version if we are to focus on something.

Calder · Post by **Calder** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:05 am

I'll ask the question many are probably wondering: "Is this moving forward?"

Post by **Fel** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:16 am

Yes. I've been chatting with HC on a one-on-one basis to make sure we get all the bases covered.

CM Jamie · Post by **CM Jamie** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:47 pm

LC La Forge wrote:Antilles: Jamie... could be demoted to Ensign and placed within a squadron without any issues.

You git! :D

Thank goodness I can finally post on the MBs again - it was stressing me out.
But yes, this idea seems good in theory...but how would it effect the daily /weekly (whatever) life of the GE:ER?
Commander Gulrays "Blaster" Jamie
CM Jamie / SCS-1O/ ISD Nemesis / Imperial Navy
[IS-S-3P][IVC-SW][AAE-PB-3P][AAE-BB-1P][LSM-5S][MoC][MoX]

Araujo · Post by **Araujo** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:25 pm

Vortagh wrote: La Forge likes "his" Gamma (whatever he's talking about :P)

My gf would say "G-point" hehehe

Anyways, providing this discussion isn't over and after carefully reading this I believe, with all due respect, I could join the thread and mention a thing or two.

I agree when we say simulation is dead. Sadly gaming has declined to a point where it is all graphics and arcade-like interfaces with a minimal amount of imagination and skill needed. Games are now intended to draw the people's attention with eyecandy and nice features. The days of challenging ourselves and proving our superior skills by competing against others are - to my eyes- declining too. I remember being on MSN gaming zone up to 5AM looking for WoW matches on both x wing vs tie fighter and x wing alliance AND actually getting games up that late hehe.

I've tested some of the new games. Some are good but very few inspires the kind of things the X-Wing series did. We recognize they played a major role as main platforms on the initial steps of several (if not all) larger organisations such as ours.

Right now, as Vortagh very acutely said on another thread (sorry to mix up threads a bit but I just finished reading both of them and wanted to bring some of the points there in here) "Let's face it, we live in the age of consoles and of first person shooters and THAT'S what the industry focus' is aimed at. The gems almost always come from small companys (which will be bought up as soon as they produce something awesome and then the name will be milked for EAs new game series :P) - and last time I checked, all the SW stuff was owned by one big company. "

I'll take the liberty to take this opinion one step ahead: web gaming. Yes people, those massive, web-based games are catching most of the current playing pool...why? instanct action with a lot of players, some are cheap or even free and most of them are addictive due to the high degree of "special" social interaction there. In no time you could become a leader of a group and satisfy your ambition for power or destroy other players' forces in a matter of days. They additionally happen to be 24/7 games so players are stick to the websites with nothing else to do. I say this because I just came out of one of those games and interacted with players from many other games like that.

Also, from RL, I noticed how people is less and less inclined to deal with smimulation...I don't know if they just want an easy victory or won't take seriously (as serious as a vid game can get) anything in gaming terms, please allow me to expand a bit on this:

I happen to play IL2 Sturmovik, I enjoy the challenge that realistic game provides lol at first it took me like 30 min to kill one plane on full realistic settings haha with the lowest AI and most of the time I failed. I'm not an expert but I least my kills are a bit more than my deaths right now. I still struggle a lot to rapidly kill a fighter but most of the time I get the job done before I run out of ammo.

Well , I decided to invite a couple friends into Il2, I convinced them to rent the game and we dealt with their routers for like a whole hour :P and we were set. Well, I crashed my plane when taking off (made me laugh for a while) but after I got used to the Yak-9T (or was it 9u?) I managed to (out of sheer luck however) kill the other guy's pilot. Fine, I enjoyed the moment, but my two friends quickly gave up playing as one couldn't take off his plane and refused to try any further, the other one thought he could deal with the realism of the simulation but after his pilot was killed (and the plane gunned down shortly afterwards) he then gave up too (pride , I would dare to say).

They actively challenged me in an x box WWI "flight sim" that was no more than a 3rd person arcade. I managed to quickly learn the physics of it (pretty simple), the biggest problem was to get used to the xbox's controller (1st time I dealt with a two stick gamepad ever) but after 2 hours I managed to make a couple kills - on my 1st day. This happened before we flew IL2 tho. I must say they still play their arcade and completely gave up trying to play IL2

Now that I read this thread and think on this experience I can conclude people is no longer motivated to deal with simulations...why would I fail to take off my fighter when I can just show up in the air, have the comp aiding me in aiming , with unlimited ammo even on the hardest levels and never, ever, stall? to me those are games I'd enjoy in my laptop when I go to the restroom but would never, ever, wake up my interest, dedication and passion as XvT and IL2 does.

For the rest I believe it is all about "easy-going". I partially blame the game industry for not making any efforts on bringing realism to our games. Eyecandy for easy money seems to be their policy. Additionally, the lesser software, hardware and resources needed, the more attractive the game is for costumers so...make a sim for people to fly with mouse and keyboard, they'll prefer it rather than having to pay extra money to buy a joystick or a wheel. I think they have no clue about how much fun they're missing.

Anyways, if you want to increase our manpower I'd dare to say you should adapt to the new times (not neccesarily leaving out the roots). What do I mean? well eventually venture into the easiest ways of massively recruiting - sure we dont have lobbies as the Zone but we do have , for example, those free webgames aaaand the social networks like (never thought I'd say this) facebook: catch personnel and once they're enlisted, slowly introduce them to simulation.

Nowadays , people just boot up the comp, checks mail, twitter, facebook, chats on msn and thats pretty much everything they do. Some (especially the newer gens) are already tired of this but are ignorant of their options, some have no clue that simulations ever existed or totally unaware of groups as ours. Some are tired of the excessive eyecandy and wants something different - that's when we come , with an alternative for their entertainment...no , we're not their clowns lol I mean to provide the means for them to enjoy their time on the comp.

To make things easier, I agree we should suggest free gaming platforms. I happen to like this little one B5 simulator called "I've found her" located on http://ifh.babylonfive.ru/ which is a good counterpart for star wars' x wing vs tie fighter and star trek's bridge commander. I humbly suggest to consider this option for us - possibly a SW mod could be done for this game.

Just my two cents ppl, sorry for the wall of text but this topic is something I've considered for months w/o having much people to discuss with.

Munro Burton · Post by **Munro Burton** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:38 pm

Araujo, have you looked at the dates of the posts before you make yours? :P

Post by **Jagged Fel** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:47 pm

Burton: unlike most necro-posts, this actually has a meaningful contribution :P

Munro Burton · Post by **Munro Burton** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:17 pm

Sure, but... the Navy's been reorganised already, hasn't it? :P

LCL Fewrfreyut · Post by **LCL Fewrfreyut** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:29 pm

Araujo, I too am an eyecandy victim. But, all you had to do was say IL2 and I knew I was going to like you :P

CM Jamie · Post by **CM Jamie** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:58 pm

I like good graphics though, I admit - a good game and nice visual effects needn't be mutually exclusive surely?